VAULT DWELLERS SERVED

Monday, May 19, 2014

"Cloud" Computing Is an NSA Trojan Horse

According to Snowden it was conceived of as a way to get people to put all their information online to make it easier for NSA servers to scan it and file it with heuristic associations.

It is junk technology envisioned by idiots.

If you waste your corporation's money moving their sensitive data into the "cloud," they need to hold you personally responsible when it is stolen. You recommended it, the fault lies with you.

It is impossible to imagine any situation in which data would become more secure by taking it out from behind a secure firewall and putting it into a gigantic cloud data center managed by several third parties. Never, not in a million years. It is open defiance of good sense.

30 comments:

Russell said...

"It is impossible to imagine any situation in which data would become more secure by taking it out from behind a secure firewall and putting it into a gigantic cloud data center managed by several third parties."

I've been pointing this out to upper management since the buzzword starting getting traction. I've been banned from such discussions, until they actually need something to work, then I'm pulled back in. Rinse, repeat.

Thal Genius said...

If you could pass a high school reading comprehension test, you would know that it wasn't the cloud that failed, Cleve. It was their database management system that was at fault here, preventing users from logging in, and cutting them off from Adobe Creative Cloud (among other services). Seriously, do you even read the crap you're posting here?

KW Jackson said...

The future of the internet is "Mesh Networks" and "P2P public ledgers". Mesh networks organically organise and search with voluntary dedicated DNS. P2P ledgers publicly track transactions of any kind; currency, voting, educational qualifications, online sales, what ever you can imagine. You can see why these two technologies are on the hot list for worldwide banning. Bitcoin and Torrent sharing are the P2P. Mesh networks are still in early stages yet the massive push for smartphone killswitches and biometric ID is part of heading this technology off at the pass.

KW Jackson said...

P2P ledgers can be used for file storage, too, in a secure distributed manner. Check out "MaidSafe".

Texas Arcane said...

@Thal Genius

I get it, the medicine is perfectly safe and effective, unfortunately the patient died before we could tabulate the results of our study on the medicine. Ergo, the patient failed us.

Wait, if a single simple database failure can bring down the "ever-present and available" cloud, doesn't that mean the cloud may not be so "ever-present and available" as described?

Where in human history did centralised control of anything ever make it MORE stable?

Luke said...

@KW Jackson

Agreed. I've been thinking about designing some sort of secure distributed communication system (if you know what I mean) using the two technologies. No centralization makes it very hard to shutdown...

While we're on the topic of software, I must say, I've been programming in Lisp for the last six weeks and my mind is blown. S-expressions means programs == data, an incredibly powerful concept. While I spend a lot of time just debugging in languages like C and Java, with Lisp, it seems like as soon as the ideas are clear in my mind, the program is done.

Somebody here mentioned newLisp a while back. I haven't used it yet but it seems very useful. Extensive libraries plus a pretty efficient compiler. Perhaps a version of Lisp for the real world?

Luke said...

@Thal Genius

Wow that was hostile. If Tex posts crap, why are you here?

Thal Genius said...

Because I enjoy ridiculing conspiracy theorists and phrenologists, amongst other things.

Texas Arcane said...

@Thal Genius

It appears you are so busy defending your convictions you really would never have time to question your convictions.

"Cloud" computing is not only junk technology, it is also conceived and created and promoted by the NSA according to Edward Snowden. Even when faced with the facts, you still cling to the majority meme despite having learned it is simply a ruse by people who expect people like yourself to fall for nearly anything.

Russell said...

@Luke

I am not an expert in Lisp, at all, but you may want to check out a Common Lisp implementation or check out Scala.

I've read some people consider Ruby to be a real world implementation of Lisp. I wouldn't go that far, but it certainly borrowed some Lisp ideas.

@KW

Yup. Mesh is going to be more important as the Fed monster continues to run out of control. To employ an analogy, it's akin to bull-pup style rifles. Been around awhile, but people are now starting to see the benefits of that design in urban and suburban areas, opposed to the more traditional rifle design.

@Tex
What's worse is the bean counters love the idea of paying a fraction of the cost of a dedicated server farm and dealing with disaster recovery plans when they can have a third party deal with it. And the shortsighted management just see bigger bonuses, so they jump on board. And there are too many technologists, programmers and infrastructure people, that should know better but get sucked into buzzwords.

Ah well, I use cloud storage as backup of stuff I want to keep. Encrypt the important stuff, leave things like minecraft saves unencrypted.

Machine Learning and data mining seem like magic, but they are only as good as the data, the assumptions made, and the algorithms used. My gut feeling is the NSA is operating under massive hubris, and that will hamper much of their efforts. Not all, not enough, but a lot more than the Imperial throne of D.C. is going to know about.

Thal Genius said...

The "facts" being hearsay by Ed Snowden whose words are now worthless as he can pull stuff out of his ass, since he can't confirm them anyway.

Unknown said...

I'm not a computer programmer or IT techie, but anyone knows that a Distributed System / Network trumps a Centralized System in terms of function, robustness, and ability to weather adverse action

Anyone who doesn't understand that the Cloud is a trap to centralize data and ADVERSELY affect depositors is a fool

Texas Arcane said...

@Thal Genius

Snowden releases the documents at the same time he reveals more about the NSA program. Microsoft and Google were apologizing in advance before Snowden revealed both of them opened their cloud shares to the NSA so any data put up there is like emailing it to them.

@Russell

No matter how good your arguments are they always lose if the other guy is promising a magic panacea to all of your problems with a third party simply claiming they will make the problems go away. It doesn't matter if it turns out to be a huge scam and something promised nobody could ever deliver on because the administrator will say he was just going with the flow and management thought it was a great idea. There is no accountability when some morning you find nobody can get to their data and the service may be out for days.

Texas Arcane said...

The weirdest thing is that Cloud computing is clearly an attempt to reverse the trend towards distributed computing which has been going on for the past ten years. As KW Jackson pointed out, the real future is P2P secure public ledgers. Somebody was getting nervous and is trying to drag the tech the other way using brute force.

styrac1 said...

http://scgnews.com/china-russia-solidify-their-alliance-and-issue-joint-statement-condemning-us-tinkering

"Taken as a whole it would be difficult to come up with a more effective way to push these two countries together if one tried."

It seems that someone has been trying all along:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9_Hv5oRhHs

styrac1 said...

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/05/21/363585/china-urges-alliance-with-iran-russia/

AussieGal said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AussieGal said...

I see it as a further step towards complete reliance on a complex house of cards systems. How long before the humble library is on the cloud? Everyone accesses information /history /"simple how to do stuff" via their tablets (or the future equivalent). People will have no choice but to keep it going. Then BANG collapse. What record of history would be available about the lead up to collapse??? Makes you wonder if its happened before??

styrac1 said...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-calls-for-new-security-pact-with-russia-iran/

Texas Arcane said...

@AussieGal

I've been thinking the same thing.

We've mentioned microfiche on the site before as the ultimate EMP proof medium for human knowledge.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, an entire civilization that keeps its sum total knowledge on cloud systems? Could anything possibly be more fragile? Instant Dark Ages overnight if it were to be wiped out in a high altitude EMP burst or solar flare.

Sometimes it does seem like this must have all happened before. It is like people are following a script.

Russell said...

@Tex

It comes down to accountability, and that is utterly lacking with these new Cloud based solutions. Your Cloud provider went down? Too bad, no rollovers possible. Your customers don't care about the provider, all they know is your stuff isn't working. Missed sales? Oops. Bad PR? Shucks, that's a real shame.

"Sometimes it does seem like this must have all happened before. It is like people are following a script."

I think of the Minoans. They predate classic Greek, they were a flourishing civilization up until 15th century BC. Then they just seemed to wither up and die off. Lots of theories, my view is they centralized their society into palaces, got hit with natural disasters and couldn't deal with that and the following invaders because the palace had become the center of all decisions. Regardless, they were buried and forgotten until early 20th century.

Will the US even have that after all is said and done?

styrac1 said...

Thal Cunthole, the only one here who's been pulling stuff out of his ass and the one who can't back up anything he says besides a Poo-hooing "conspiracies" meaning you believe anything your governement/authority says and dismiss anything else as conspiracy. Go back to the little shithole that the codex is, it seems you could use the support of your fellow faggots there, you're obviously in need of a hug.

Grognard said...

Microsoft is already close enough to 'complete world control' of computing. Having every bit of research and personal data owned by some crazed hivemind is quite disturbing.

KW Jackson said...

@Luke. http://www.rivalmessenger.com/
Looks like the framework is "done". Telehash. There's likely to be others. Might help bootstrap your project, though.

Texas Arcane said...

@Russell

If you believe in biological decline theories, then the tendency to centralisation at the end of a civilisation (people hope formal regulation of everything will make it more secure when it actually makes everything less secure) is the worst possible policy at the worst possible time.

If you look at the decentralised nature of islander life, for example, they may not be very innovative but their living conditions are scattered and independent to the degree that when a tsunami comes, they don't wait for a klaxon to give warning. Each individual sizes the situation up and moves to higher ground. Strangely, more of these islanders survived the boxing day tsunami than the "civilised" people on the beaches who thought it was safe because they heard no warning sirens.

The truth is, no matter how smart a race of people is, the more decentralised the more resilient it is to shocks. The second you pile all the people into the same shelter or the same aircraft or the same train, you now have to make sure everybody survives or else nobody survives.

So declining civilisations get hit with shocks and they have organised their affairs at that stage into the worst possible centralised configurations. It is no wonder they rarely last longer than 200 years.

Grognard said...

http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/2013/12/machiavellism-social-dominance.html

They want to centralized and become authoritarian due to 'demographic change'.

"Machiavellism, social dominance orientation and authoritarianism are tightly related (and subclinically psycopathic)"

Of course people like that can't build anything, they can just destroy what better men built.

Russell said...

@Tex

That reminds me I need to read "Antifragile." Imagine a civilization based on those ideas combined with the Christian moral framework and belief system with a way to instill this into each subsequent generation instead the dead-end centralized approach.

Luke said...

@KW Jackson

Thank you, I'll check it out.

Publius said...

@Tex: great post. I can't argue with it.
For what it is worth, I work for a cloud backup company. We take security seriously, but we cannot fight an NSA request for you data. Now, if you use the private encrypted key option, the NSA can't easily read your data, unless they break the encryption.
We also let people use our cloud software in their own private cloud.

Don't tell my boss, but I've never bought into the hype. Cloud backup properly done is backing up to your own server or machines remotely located. And we offer that.

But most people, 99% easily, use the default security level. Meaning that we have access to the key, and therefore the NSA or any other gov't agency that requests it.

I.e., most people are stupid. That really helps the spooks. Most people just don't care about security.
Frankly, most people's data isn't even worth backing up. Isn't it amazing at how many petabytes of data of cats we are backing up? Wasting the electricity to keep those hard drives spinning.
Speaking of which, what do you think of Sony's new tech to allow amazing amounts of data to be stored on tape? People think tape is dead, but it is a better backup medium in many ways. No need to keep the platters spinning.
Anyway, I am currently on a voyage to non-US nations, exploring emigration. Thanks for helping to inspire me to pursue this.

Thal Genius said...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2640330/Prepare-iJacked-Apple-users-devices-hacked-forced-pay-RANSOM-theyre-unlocked.html

Another victim of the infinite power of the CLOUD.

www.000webhost.com