Wednesday, December 5, 2012

Neanderthals Brought Dogs Forward With Them

They inhabit a very special place in the natural order and it is likely they will always be with us from now on.

The Neanderthal plucked them from their place in the wild and turned them into something quite remarkable over the course of a quarter million years.

If you have ever seen comparative studies of dogs and wolves raised in captivity, their pattern of development is analogous to that of humans and apes. At a very young age they seem quite similar in abilities and design. It is only as they grow that the neoteny that is the pivot point of their biological cycle begins to produce remarkable effects in real capacity. By the time they are fully adult they are differentiated in an extraordinary fashion.

If you look at the changes required in terms of organic modifications that would be required to genetically engineer dogs to be capable of doing much more complex tasks like driving and speaking, they actually involve less alteration than would be needed to make men into better men. This is one of the reasons I am certain that Neanderthals developed much more slowly than Homo Sapiens - it is the simplest way to produce a better result in the end - by delaying maturity.


sheek said...

Actually Cleve there have been experiments performed on foxes which led to very rapid changes in both physiognomy and also behavior within a few generations. Look up the silver fox, there no need for genetic engineering, a well planned breeding program is enough.

With proper planning it would only take a few centuries domesticate an animal, and vice-versa only a few centuries to revert if the domesticators disappeared maintenance.

If you admit 'thals have been out of the picture for the last 10,000 years, this leaves only Sapiens who could have done it.

There is no reason to believe you 'thals are responsible for the evolution of dogs. I hope you are able to overcome your inferiority complex just for once and give us some credit

Texas Arcane said...

I'm familiar with the Russian experiments in Fox domestication. Do you always have to act like you're the only person who can see the outside world? Some might think you are somewhat sheltered in that you believe this sort of thing is a real revelation. Wow, you read something. Incredible.

DNA shows the dog broke from the dire wolf over 250,000 years ago. Same for horses, cattle, goats and sheep.

Being able to approach a Fox without it biting you is not even comparable to the wondrous character of dogs.

I can see Sapiens today so I am well aware of his capabilities. Animal domestication is not in there. Rape, cannibalism, cheering at spectator sports and pro wrestling is his thing. Nice things don't come from Homo Sapiens. All I have is a half-century of observation to work from.

marlon said...

Something you might be interested in -

Garry Joe said...

"Look up the silver fox, there no need for genetic engineering, a well planned breeding program is enough."

If that was the Russian experiment, I remember they mentioned one animal they described as very special. She was the first fox in their program that for no reason they understood, was born without a fear of man.

They described her as a genetic aberration and they bred all of their tame foxes from that one animal.


As for dogs, one of the amazing things about them, is they are the most malleable creatures on Earth.

Just consider all the shapes and sizes they come in, yet they all recognize each other as dogs. That is incredible, if you sit and think about it.

Justin said...

Early puberty is a clinical reality for Blacks, on average 1.5-2 years earlier than Whites. If that difference is based on the Thal admixture, it is reasonable to assume Thals were much slower to hit puberty.

Ragnar Ulfson said...

actually, Neanderthals hit puberty early, compared to homo sapiens. Just sayin.

sheek said...

"DNA shows the dog broke from the dire wolf over 250,000 years ago. Same for horses, cattle, goats and sheep."

OK then I suppose you can point to fossils of 'thal dogs from 250k ago. And no, the cheetah is not a dog.

The fact is that the earliest fossil evidence of dogs is from about 25,000 years ago near Sapiens sites, the primitive ancestors of the breeds which exist today. Whatever 'thals might possibly be responsible we've been able to improve far beyond anything you could have imagined.

As for the silver foxes it is only meant to show modern Soviet Sapiens have been able to domesticate other more difficult species which you hadn't even considered. Even in the 50 years this experiment has run we've made progress which would have taken your 'thal ancestors 10s or 100s of thousands of yours to achieve.

Also look up the noble Molossian dog which was specifically bred by the ancient Aryans to track and hunt down the straggling bands of 'thal cave savages (an example of an ancient and very effective Sapiens pest control technology).

Texas Arcane said...

Sheek, since you clearly were not aware of what the DNA evidence shows, don't you think now would be a good time to stop pontificating on this issue? I recommend you go and become more familiar with your subject and then return here. You must have recognized many other instances where visitors have lectured me on what the televitz tells us all to believe only to quickly realize all of it was wrong.

If you are not familiar with what DNA says about domesticated animals, maybe it is time you did more private research, less yakkin' and lecturing.

Find out what the original aurochs, the original dire wolf and many other species these animals came from and try to wrap your head around the brains it takes to domesticate an animal that sometimes reaches a building story at the shoulder level and has hooves the size of a volkswagon. That's the ancestor of cows.

Your blah blah blah orthodoxy stuff is already familiar to me but apparently most of what I know about this subject is completely new to you. Perhaps it is time you fell silent and did some heavy duty reading on this subject.

Texas Arcane said...

P.S. The monographs show evidence of dead dogs in every Neanderthal cave ever excavated including the original one 150 years ago but somehow like pottery shards this stuff never does seem to make it into print. Read the original monographs about numerous "canine" bones found in Neanderthal caves. "Canine" is a fancy word used in place of "dog" like "Bovid" is a word used to conceal the word "Cow." The LasCaux caves and many others are just endless pictures of what scienmajistic types describe as "bovids." The horses are often called "equines."