Friday, April 27, 2012

Snippets & Ruminations In The New Anthropology #1

Just an assorted collection of some of the ideas I have been reflecting on in the past year or so :

1. The deep, powerful revulsion of the Neanderthal has overtones of profoundly ingrained biological reflexes designed to preserve life, like the fear we see upon suddenly discovering a snake, a spider or a festering wound. I am convinced that the immensely strong immune systems of the Neanderthals enabled them to harbor any number of deadly, virulent and lethal strains of staph that rendered any contact with them in the form of a bite or scratch to be a death sentence. These micro-organisms were harmless to them amongst themselves but would rage through strangers like wildfire, killing them as quickly as flesh-eating bacteria do today. When part of this immune system was transferred to Europeans, it made them into living bioweapons that eliminated whole races of men by simply arriving at their shores. The strong fear and loathing of the Neanderthal persists to this day - the sight of the round eye and retreating periorbital socket triggers ancient instincts in certain breeds of men to retreat. In the schoolyard this subliminal feeling of fear is coped with by bullying children who resemble or remind others of Neanderthals. This wise strategy of a wide berth led to the victorious practice of attacking them from a distance with projectile weapons and never allowing them to approach for close quarters combat.

2. The combined hybrid of Neanderthal and Sapiens led to a creature which survives best on a low carbohydrate protein diet in most cases, but the intestinal tract has retained the practice of requiring roughage to stimulate it to elimination. This has left the digestive design of mankind a very weird affair with great difficulty in getting both proper nutrition and proper stimulation of the bowels and critical inner lining of the intestines necessary to absorb nutrients.

3. The inheritance of the paranoid, worrying anxiety about the future has been one of the strongest and most successful of the traits transferred from Neanderthals to Europeans. It leads to perpetual states of overkill where Europeans feel the need to prepare many strategies and accommodate many possible courses of action and were formerly highly unlikely to ever be caught too far afield by the unexpected. This trait of constantly projecting scenarios into the future and trying to prepare for anything both at the individual and the group level has formerly made them nigh indestructible similar to their Neanderthal ancestors. With the loss of these traits and social engineering designed to suppress these instincts in the modern era, the European has essentially surrendered the genetic trump card in his makeup. If he simply waits for the future to arrive and hopes everything will be okay he is throwing in the towel to return to his animal roots, losing nearly all the advantages conferred upon him in the past by this kind of waking dreaming.

4. The locomotive systems of the two species has favored the original design of Homo Sapiens, sacrificing power for endurance for long distance trekking. The Neanderthals powerful waistless frame was intended for a homebody who rarely ventured more than a couple hundred kilometers on foot in any direction. The transfer of some of the muscle mass and shape from Neanderthal to Homo Sapiens has likely reduced their capacity for long distance endurance slightly while increasing their upper and lower body strength significantly over other races. The Kenyan super distance athletes are probably fairly representative of the bodies of Sapiens before the hybridization. Kenyans are notoriously weak people who can otherwise run or walk any other race into the ground and they have substantial advantage in energy management. It is blindingly obvious that the Neanderthal's dietary requirements meant he would have to carry huge amounts of meat with him if he intended to go very far from home, sort of like an oil tanker that would require the gas tank hooked up to it's own reservoir to keep the engine running for very long. This critical aspect would have contributed significantly to the Sapiens ability to wander for years over huge distances surviving on carbohydrates derived from plants he harvested along the way.

5. The Melonheads likely were wiry and quite strong compared with their slaves for this reason, possibly used to being transported by slaves atop carriages with little need on their part to walk long distances. They would have been less strong than Neanderthals but would have preferred their slaves to have little upper body strength that would threaten them. It is also likely from both the fossil evidence and the mythical lore that they towered in height over both of the other two species of man. I envision them as averaging around seven foot (a frequent height found for melonhead skeletons) with some of them running nine feet or higher. They almost certainly contributed to the legends of giant rulers and colossus tyrants who are found throughout oral and written traditions. I also believe it was common for them to display red hair, double rows of teeth and extremely piercing eyes. They probably contributed to the perception of their great size by wearing hats and crowns designed to emphasize their lofty perspective. I see their locomotion as emphasizing their status and not being constrained by efficiency, a sort of ponderous, leisurely gait where they appeared to be virtually sliding wherever they went, without any need to practice any kind of economy other than elegance and regal independence. Highly unlikely that anyone with Neanderthal or Melonhead ancestry would ever win any medals in the marathon at the Olympiad.

Hope you find these ideas interesting. I may put some more of them up here in time just to hear what others think on this subject.


Ave said...

The lack of any "melonhead" group other than in advanced civilisations makes me formulate a theory : just as consanguinity creates significantly more fragile individuals from healthy parents, with the apparition of hemophilia for instance, it could also be that under certain circumstances melonhead children would appear from normal parents.

Perhaps it's the "anormal" Sapiens-Neanderthal hybrid, opposed to the more stealthy "European" hybrid as you just described them in your post.


Serper said...

I think it could also be possible that many of the melon heads had 6 fingers and 6 toes.
They would have developed measurements based upon 6 that we have today.
The 6 fingered and toed, melon head giants are also mentioned in the bible.

Koanic said...

"which survives best on a low carbohydrate protein diet in most cases, but the intestinal tract has retained the practice of requiring roughage to stimulate it to elimination."

I think this is totally wrong. Meat and starch should be balanced. That's how we naturally eat. And you don't need to eat veggies AT ALL. Paleo people don't go for salad.

Ghostwriter said...

Interesting stuff and it brought to my mind something that Bruce Lee once said about White Ppl ; that he does not understand why we eat cheese. I just tought of it cos someone here thought that them Neo´s were cheese eaters, this is i guess circumstantial evidence for that(that "the others" dont ..dig cheese). Anyway do you / or does anyone here know of a site where i could see the actual BODIES not just heads of them coneheads ?! ty

Melonhead said...


Cool theory.

Tall, large-headed, red-headed guys in charge do seem to keep occurring in ruling families, but I'm not sure that it happens to just any case of consanguinity for two reasons: it has been happening for thousands of years and it has been happening among a particular group of people that is (distantly) related.

A couple, easily found data points:
Present day: Prince Harry (
Late Middle Ages: Tamerlane and Genghis Khan (
Middle Ages: William the Conqueror (
Early Civilization: Ramesses II (

As for their relatedness, check out (Genghis Khan is Prince Harry's 27th-Great Grandfather:

Now, who becomes the guy in charge? Usually the son of the last guy in charge. Who were the first guys in charge? I think they were the commanders of the Sapian hordes that left Africa. (BTW, here is a summary of a scholarly article that supports Tex's hypothesis:

I don't think that they were always carried around in chairs, though. When Adapa/Oannes took control of the Sapian camp at the eastern end of the Fertile Crescent, he rolled up in scuba gear and chain mail to protect himself from sharks in the Euphrates. I'm guessing his sub was parked just off of the shore. The pre-Sumerian peoples there were probably in mud huts.

So, where is the Melonhead homeland. I don't know, but I'm starting to research ancient geography to scout possible locations.

I'm very curious about this topic because I have such a hard time finding hats that fit and the extra teeth that I am still growing in middle age are the source of many literal and figurative headaches.


Texas Arcane said...

I have become stuck on the idea that the ancestral kingdom of the melonheads is buried beneath arctic ice and dates from a time when this was a verdant, tropical paradise excellent for large scale agriculture.

You have to admit it would be pretty awesome if the ice pack melted and revealed cities of pyramids and dolmens with tens of thousands of melonheaded skeletons in them.

The reason this location is so appealing is that it would have been perfect for a maritime empire. All ships would sail with ease from nearly any place to the north pole and back in the absence of the ice.

Texas Arcane said...

The Si-Te-Cahs reviled by the indians seem to me to be part of an ongoing effort by melonheads to to colonize North America.

The indians were extremely afraid of these red haired creatures and considered them half-demon. They found if they united all the tribes together they could overcome them. Again and again we hear that the Si-Te-Cah regarded the indians as slaves and food and nothing else. One indian myth said that the Si-Te-Cah told them that they created their race and if they wished they had to right to use them any way they saw fit including eating them.

One indian chant specifically asks for protection from coneheaded men with red hair and their teeth.

Amongst other parts of the legend it is said that the Si-Te-Cah were very jealous of the bodies of one of their own kind and would always "spirit" it away to somewhere else when they died. This is why the indians say it is so difficult to find a skeleton intact of these men.

Texas Arcane said...

Melonhead -

It is amazing how much information we have in common.

I too have noted time and time again the "fishmen" in scales who just appear on beaches somewhere and start telling people what to do like they own the place. This mythology is found in India, the Incans and Mayans, Greek and Sumerian myths. A guy shows up in what appears to be a scaled scuba suit and starts giving orders.

Texas Arcane said...

Note the mention here of the attempt to build a pyramid in the earthquake prone region around the New York Canyon ...

Texas Arcane said...

“Oannes was a man, or rather a monster, Half man and half fish, coming from the sea, appeared near Babylon; he had two heads; one, which was the highest, resembled that of man, the other that of a fish. He had the feet of a man, and the tail of a fish; and his speech and voice resembled that of a man: a representation of him is still preserved. This monster dwelt by day with men, but took no food; he gave them knowledge of letters, arts, and sciences; he taught them to build towers and temples; and to establish laws; he instructed them in the principles of geometry; taught them to sow, and to gather the fruits of the earth; in short, whatever could contribute to polish and civilize their manners. At sun set he retired to the sea, in which he passed the night. There appeared likewise others of the same species.”

Berossus, from ancient fragments maintained by the Greeks (Isaac Preston Cory)

JimBob said...

Why assume he was a man in a scuba suit? If they could create new kinds of men, they could mix themselves with animals.

Djanar said...

Heh, good thing you guys mentioned Dagon/Oannes as I've been keeping this in my bookmarks folder since forever...

Check this out:

See the illustration there? The high-headed ornate "fish" helmet fits in so nicely with the massive conehead skulls found in South America, you know the ones ridiculously big enough to discard the "Artificial Cranial Deformation" theory almost immediately. The Russian Author who owns that website is an interesting guy as well, definitely not your average New-Agey writer type. An accomplished mathematician who worked in the Soviet Russian Space Agency, the counterpart to NASA at the time. His book is about his deciphering of an ancient mathematical cryptographic warning about some catastrophic event that befell upon an antediluvian Atlantean-like human(oid) civilization. An event which will definitely happen again... A full-fledged Magnetic Reversal event?

I have previously believed that the "coneheads" were the ruling classes of an Atlantean civilization, having not artificially manipulated but genuinely massive cranial capacities far surpassing any humanoid alive now. I was unsure whether this was the result of selective breeding amongst an already potent race of humans or that they themselves were the remnants of an entirely different hominid subgroup. A lot of the giants themselves at first seemed to me like over-specialized breeds of mutant freaks created to become the ultimate shock troops, overseers and the enforcers of the sea-faring Atlantean dominion sporting the double-rows of teeth, six fingers and the other Fomorian-like abnormalities.

I have later figured out that all of these humanoid races that fascinates us so, the Neanderthals, Melonheads, Giant-hybrids and even some of the ancestors of the Cro-Magnon share a common ancestor; "The Goliath" or Homo Heidelbergensis. It is already known in mainstream science that these pre-historic giants were the ancestors of the Neanderthals. I think they were the ancestors of the much taller Melonheads etc. as well. Their Neanderthal children have gotten a bit shorter to adapt to a harsh, frozen landscape. Their Atlantean M-head children have gotten even taller. The giant freaks created by the M-heads were probably the tallest damn hominids that ever lived. That lower jawbone of the "Si-Te-Cah" from the Lovelock cave is real and it is the stuff of nightmares. It must have belonged to something at least nine feet tall.

The Giants/Melonheads appears to have entered into a very poor state of existence after the devastating collapse of their whole civilization and the remnants have found themselves surrounded by their former slave-creatures. The giants found or told about to be in the Americas and the Levant could be the ones robust enough to have survived the destruction of the "Atlantean" colonies all over the world. Some of the remnants became pathetic survivors living a pathetic life like the ones massacred by the Indians while others became the Nimrods and Goliaths of legend in another part of the world. Different colonies, different factions and different Melonhead-Nephilim admixtures constituting the survivors in different places? Too many patterns and too many mysteries indeed...

Melonhead said...

Chainmail shark suits for scuba really makes a person look like they are covered in scales (

Sharks are a substantial threat in coastal waters and large rivers, like the Euphrates (

Sharks are even a problem in very northerly waters (

I think it makes sense that Melonheads coming ashore would be wearing shark suits.

I agree that the arctic is a real possibility for a Melonhead homeland. It matches the myths of "Hyperborea" and it was warm and verdant before the closing of the Ismuth of Panama 2.7 mil years ago (, which puts it into the timescales we need for early human evolution. Melonhead refugee settlements that were pushed south into North America by glaciation could make sense to match the American Indian legends.

Also, many old maps are oriented with the North on the bottom of the map because if you are starting from a northerly base, you will hold the map in front of you and the south part of the map will be farther away from you, matching the landscape.

Melonhead said...

I also think your ruminations on Neanderthals are close to the money too.

The most Neanderthal-esque people that I know (I have a very interesting family) do not get sick as long as they stick to a simple diet of meat, cheese, water, and the occasional starchy tuber. No colds, no flus, no infections, nothing. They do have digestive problems, however, when they stray from this diet. In fact, most of their obituaries say things like, "he died in his sleep of old age, having never been sick a day in his life."

I also think that Neanderthals would try to avoid Sapians as well because Sapian behavior wouldn't make much sense from the Neanderthal perspective - it wouldn't seem internally consistent.


P.S. I have some comments in response to some of the posters in the Meritocracy thread that accused the readers here of being "special" underachievers living in a fantasy land. First, as far as I have been able to double-check, most of the far-out anthropological and technological theories Tex posts here are grounded in hard science and scholarly research findings. Second, I initially found this blog because I was doing searches about some rare and peculiar family traits I am dealing with and have found it to be a great resource. Furthermore, my handiwork flies on the space station, and I don't know about you, but I think that would be considered fairly accomplished for many professions. It's that I just don't find the need to talk about it, and I suspect that there are several other readers here of similar caliber.

Texas Arcane said...

I believe that due to frequent inbreeding (the problem of ruling classes since time began) that they began to have more blended strains of people with mixed ancestry, still being resourced to do manual and skilled labor.

As the intelligence of their slaves went up, their ability to commoditize their own work and negotiate improved, skills inherited by melonhead bastards whose fathers had crept into the slave quarters at night in the ancient past.

By the end over a 100,000 years later the Egyptian pharoahs were contending with heavily organized unions of skilled labor who knew how to force the royals to bid for the services of certain guilds, literally turning the entire architecture of civilization upside down. The former slaves ended up keeping the pharoahs over a barrel, bankrupt and constantly struggling with rising prices for labor.

Since the pharoahs of the Nile themselves were much degraded versions of their melonheaded ancestors, they increasingly had trouble solving problems that had once been easy with the intelligence of their fathers. The death cult system of pyramid and dolmen building simply no longer worked when it became a free market system.

Looked at in this light, the entire ideology of globalism might be recognized as an attempt to force all of mankind back into their stables at subsistence wages. A very clever ideology, too. Perhaps the melonheads are learning much faster than their slaves ever did.

Graham Bond said...

"Looked at in this light, the entire ideology of globalism might be recognized as an attempt to force all of mankind back into their stables at subsistence wages"

All? Diversity is only demanded of White countries.

If you doubt that, name the non-White countries with diversity policies (massive immigration and forced integration) and compare those to the number of White countries must have diversity - Or else.

There is only one racial group being targeted, whatever the reason.

Graham Bond said...

"Looked at in this light, the entire ideology of globalism might be recognized as an attempt to force all of mankind back into their stables at subsistence wages."

Oh sorry, I see what you mean.

You are talking about shipping first world manufacturing to 3rd world countries and paying the people there a few dollars a month, to work in terrible conditions, while making your own people unemployed.

Its like Gordon Gecko, from that movie Wall Street, buying companies, so he could strip them.

Everything of real value in the West, has been bled off by those globalist, pig dogs.

Djanar said...

One of the most interesting clues about the past dominance of a cone/melon headed humanoid race of creatures is that not only the artifical manipulation of the cranium to imitate or appease the "demigods" is so widespread as to exist in all kinds of unrelated human cultures in both the old and the new world continents, it is even observed in non-human races like the Homo Neanderthalensis. There is scientific evidence that some of the late Neanderthals in the Shanidar cave in Iraq molded their heads using complex tools to resemble the cone/melon heads. If you were to try to explain away head-binding as a common human spiritual/cultural/instinctual practice, then one would ask how come even the non-humans who lived tens of thousands of years ago would have the exact same practice?

I wonder what the root creature evolved somewhere on this planet to spawn such creatures and their possible civilizations would have looked like. The Homo "Goliath" Heidelbergensis is definitely an idea, but it doesn't fit in so well with a lot of things, like it being a relatively younger (about 700k years old) species from Africa. The early human evolution idea having advanced humanoid beings and their civilizations existing aeons ago really complicates things a lot. The Goliath are still plausible ancestors for the Neanderthals and the others though since they were very powerfully-built, had pretty damn large brains compared to a lot of the other hominid fossils found at their time and are the earliest known human-like creatures to bury their own dead, just like the later Neanderthals. Some of the Goliath populations who lived in South Africa half a million years ago were also found to be taller than 2 meters in average, with some of the specimen approaching 3 meters in height.

What do you guys think the root-species of the giants could be like? Giant hominid-apes from the mega-fauna times? A tall and wiry swamp-ape race of swimmers and coastal scavengers? An earlier strain of one of those "Gigantopithecus" species whose remains are found in various places in Asia? Could it simply be an artificial-selection, dog-breeding or even some kind of genetic-engineering type of interference by some old and advanced civilization on certain genetic stocks of existing hominids including their own to create a race of giants? The six fingers, double rows of teeth and the ancient descriptions of the weird physical abnormalites of the Fomorians all point to some quite heavily mutated creatures diverting from the common hominid anatomical patterns.

Texas Arcane said...

The reason there is only one group being targeted is that there is only one group with sufficient Neanderthal genes to be a threat.

The others have no notion of individual rights or any concept of existence apart from a central authority telling them what to do. Really, there was only one race that could have ever posed a threat to their reassuming control.

This brief interlude in history only came to pass because the army of Sapiens could not follow instructions and kill everyone they found as they marched north through Europe. If they had only done as they were told to do, even this brief respite from tyrants would have never happened.

The children of Esau wrote the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights under heavy influence from the Christian notion of the individual soul, existing as an atomic unit all on it's own. It was contested widely even at the time by the majority of people who simply assumed George Washington would be the new king. Sapiens has never had any other idea of government other than the big monkey gets all the coconuts until he is killed by a bigger monkey. Until they we all obey the big monkey.

People like me were always in a losing battle - living ghosts trying to restore a biology of mankind that it never had but rather was drawn from the ideals of another race altogether. Telling people who have no capacity for such things of the importance of freedom over all other things. Sapiens was a slave and he only enjoyed a mere moment before he went back into his leg irons. The ghosts of the Neanderthals cannot save Sapiens from his own nature.

Graham Bond said...

"Really, there was only one race that could have ever posed a threat to their reassuming control"

You have the Asians and their insect colony like societies, where nothing changes, unless it forces its way in.

You have the animalistic Africans, where technology is destroyed and returns to its natural state.

You have White societies that are dynamic and unpredictable, where revolution, after revolution occurs.

Obviously one of these groups is a problem, that requires a final solution, no prizes for guessing which one.

I have read others talk about similar beings as your Melonheads, but they have different ideas, of who and what they are.

They claim the old royal families of Europe, haven't bred outside their family lines, for as far as they can be traced back, and their family lines go all the way to Babylon.

These royals treated their subjects like animals for the most part and still do. So it could be they are the remnants of your Melonheads, a race apart, hiding in plain sight.

Koanic said...

I don't buy that a group that smart and powerful just miscegenated itself out of existence, plus a magnetic reversal wiping out the homeland.

Why use subs to roll up on sapiens? Why the stealth?

You only use subs when surface ships and aircraft are a Very Bad Idea.

There's something much bigger going on here. And I think it's connected to the gods above the gods.

Melonheads were the gods to sapiens. But somebody was threatened by the melonheads. And those gods axed cranial capacity on Earth.

Wouldn't it be great irony if for all we've learned to hate and fear the melonheads, they turn out to be at least comprehensible - man-like. And something else, that wiped them out, lurks Cthonian.

Djanar's link was great, here it is again:

So Tex, what about it? Who were the gods behind the gods? Whence melonheads? WTF is going on around here?

Also, resident melonhead, the diet you describe is almost precisely what I eat, except no cheese and I eat scallops for micronutrients. I do need something fermented for Vit K2. It has restored me to health after severe iatrogenic error.

Texas Arcane said...

So many races have miscegenated themselves off the planet it would be difficult to keep track of them all.

Once specialized and successful, despecializing and degrading your genome is a sluiced rail back to the muck you came from. Once the recipe is right, nothing ruins it like introducing failed genes.

Texas Arcane said...

My thoughts on the royals are not stated in plain terms because we get frequent visits from "The City of London" on this blog.

The melonheads are still around, vigorous and active 24/7.

Note that the majority of all royals in the past two centuries have bought titles since Cromwell threw the barn door open. There are very few English Royals who are either english or royal. They bought their way in like the Rothchilds. One day gypsies, the next barons and lords. All it took was writing out a check.

Koanic said...

TOo answer your most recent comment, Djanar, I have no idea what's really going on around here, but I do think the only plausible explanation for bipedal large brain evolution is the ocean shoreline dweller hypothesis. So if there's a common ancestor to humanity, I think that would be it.

The other environments favor the quadrupedal.

And Tex, I'm sure miscegenation played a role in the decline, but what caused the initial breaking? Why were they stealthing around at the height of their technology? Why did they limit themselves to just one continent amidst a sea of slaves? If evolution happened, how did we get from bipedal coastline dwellers to melonheads? Why the steady decline in brain size, after such a huge ramp up?

It seems to me there are some kind of higher gods with their own agenda, whose interventions tend to directly affect the Earth's magnetic field and DNA expression. What interest or fear such beings could possibly have in keeping Earth a slave planet is beyond me, unless it serves as a harvesting ground for consciousnesses.

I am reminded of Lovecraft's radiate starfish men vs. the old gods vs. the protoplasmic monstrosities that were eventually their undoing. But that was set in the antarctic...

Anyway, things don't add up. We're missing at least one big, big piece that changes everything.

Melonhead said...


Lacto-fermented products are rich in K2; ever try fermented meats? My Inuit friends make a delicacy called "stink flipper" where they wrap a seal flipper in grass, bury it for a month, and then dig it up, cook and eat it.


Do you ever get visits from Fort Mead, Maryland?


More randomness:

I also have been thinking about the decline of the Melonheads, and think that I have a model to explain it. The website (main thesis here: details a lot of research into the idea that cousin marriages result in higher fertility rates. In humans, there appear to be two mechanisms that promote cousin marriages - geographic constraints and social constraints. An example of geographic constraints is Iceland and examples of social constraints are the Amish and Orthodox Jews - where their respective belief systems promote marrying within the community.

Lets say that the Melonheads developed through geographic constraints. (Here is a bathymetric map of the arctic:, here is Greenland without ice: - lots of geographically isolated locations, via mountains and water, in both maps.) Lets also presume that at some point, the Melonheads lost their geographic contraints, because large segments of their breeding population left the homeland (perhaps to assume control of Sapian hordes?). If there aren't as many Melonhead cousins nearby for mating (proximity is a large factor in determining who mates with whom:, then overall Melonhead fertility will decline and lead to a profusion of Melonhead hybrids/demigods/nephilim.


My wife and I were just discussing over dinner a few weeks ago that it was weird that the American Indians suffered so much from the diseases that the European explorers introduced while Europe didn't experience any plagues of Western Hemisphere diseases introduced by the returning explorers.


Here is a chart of the commonly accepted timeline of human evolution ( It does not show the re-mixing of Homo Sapians Sapians and Homo Sapians Neanderthalis or the remixing of Sapians and (possibly) Homo Erectus via the Denisovans. Nor does it show rare fossils like the aforementioned Gigantopithicus. I am working on a more complete chart that shows that the ancestry of modern humans looks a bit like that of dog breeds - lots of remixing and back-breeding. The linked chart also has the Homo genus being much younger than it probably is. For example, Mary Leakey herself found 3+ million year old modern human footprints ( I think that the whole body of evidence shows that, regardless of physiologic details like their height or the slope of their head, people have been on Earth for millions of years.


Coneheads may be a way to get larger craniums through the birth canal (the main constriction on head size). The Neanderthal's faster rates of post-birth head growth is another way (,, and


Ghostwriter said...

Those were good links, ty. The Nephiliman is really cool site. That was new that them coneheads were known to eat tule, i think the modern tribe (dont remember their name) at lake Titicaca i think it was, has adopted the reef-island thing and probly. more from them.